comments on Mental Blocks, Mental Barriers to Thinking

Daryl, USA, July 24, 2009:

Great points. I have found people put great walls around their religious beliefs. Their religion is kind of like their nose - you just can't say to someone: "my what a big nose you have!" ...Unacceptable - you just have to accept the nose, I guess. Similarly you can't say, "my what a set of irrational beliefs you have, with little evidence to support such beliefs."

Does anyone really try to think about religion, to examine their religious beliefs anymore? It seems to be something they have - like their nose, or something they can try on and wear for a while - like clothes. It's theirs - and don't you question it!

Elsa, July 25, 2009:

Difference - nose and religion.

Nose: born with some nose or other.

Religion: maybe born into some religion another - but way more choices. Also these are not just aesthetic choices (like people changing the shape of their nose because they're unpopular). With religion, the choices have to do with ethics, morality. Very important to think about, think through.

But I agree - many people act AS IF religion shouldn't be questioned.

Daryl, USA. July 25, 2009

I appreciate your website. And your quick reply.

My point on nose vs religion had to do with what is acceptable by current society standards. It is not considered acceptable to comment on/critique another's religion just as it is not acceptable to confront another person on the size of his/her nose.

And we should definitely be able to discuss another's religion, but it does not happen much. In my lifetime of almost half a century, I have gotten into religious discussions only a few times.

Why is it so taboo to openly ask another to justify religious doctrines? You have to really get to know someone well before that comes up. Maybe it has to do with intimacy? Some questions are too personal to ask of those you don't know really well....

But the nose-religion analogy can only go so far, as you aptly pointed out.

Elsa, July 25, 2009

Taboos (as you probably recognize) are often to keep us from asking questions that need to be asked, looking at stuff that should be looked at: "Horrors! You can'! That's taboo!"

So: money, sex, religion ... and so on.

I've talked about religion many times (in the first place I teach - and it's one of the topics I've chosen to discuss) and very often the response you mention is the first one: one cannot argue about this - it's a matter of belief, opinion, as if beliefs about religion were any different than beliefs about other things.

Glad you appreciate the site.

Daryl, USA, July 25, 2009

So ... while out walking the dogs, I thought: what does the following question mean (thanks website, Elsa):

"what does it mean that we cannot discuss irrational beliefs or irrational church doctrines?"

It means people will believe things without evidence, or will ignore evidence. Poor Galileo, the Catholic church almost 400 years ago made him recant his findings that the earth revolves around the sun. A recent Gallup(or Harris?)poll revealed 21% of Americans believe what Galileo disproved centuries ago! And 39% of Americans do not believe in evolution (close to two-thirds of churchgoers don't "believe" in evolution), something with massive amounts of evidence supporting it. (No doubt there is short term evolution - it has been shown within generations, as example, birds, cichlids (fish) can change their morphology. Speciation is the logical conclusion after more time.)

While the church doctrine discussions are taboo, evolution discussions are only slightly less taboo. How can one chink away at irrational belief if it is not discussed (at least informally)?

And that means... someone like my younger brother and many others would vote for Sarah Palin, a women who must discount evolution, if she follows her fundamentalist church teachings, into the white house. And that means, if someone could get into the white house with that irrationality, where would they lead us? And that means.. us humans are still in a scary state.

I know you can carry "that means" to an extreme (each "that means" must be well supported by evidence or logic or you lose your premise), but...

Elsa, July 25, 2009

A number of thoughts:

I know change can and does happen, sometimes remarkably fast, usually when some tipping point has been reached.

I want to be (am) part (my own tiny part) of that positive change-making when it comes to thinking.

I'm just, in fact, developing another past of the site which will have more interaction - and is meant to get a lot more thinking going.

By the way, if you think someone like Palin is scary, remember Bush (hard to forget) - fear-monger, and highly successful in creating disastrous situations.

Elsa, July 27, 2009

I just realized:

Discussing religion used to be a big thing. It wasn't a taboo topic. Instead I remember loads of heated debates about religion. The whole Christian religion was being debated.

Think about religion? It felt that everyone was doing it. What did the Bible really say? Who really wrote the Bible? How much was it a product of its time? Everybody got into it. In North America and Europe, huge chunks of the Catholic religion just melted away, with the younger nuns and priests leaving in droves, and almost no one entering religious life - all due to discussions about religion, thinking about religion. Can women be priests and ministers? - something else that was a hot topic.

So this is a new taboo. Thank you for making me aware of this.

The big question: whom does it serve? why is this happening?

return to Mental Blocks, Mental Barriers to Thinking

To think about religion,
to explore a current reality about religion,
The Rage of the Righteous,
click here.

To think about religion,
the truth about god,
and the ultimate reality,
click here.

To discuss religion further,
to look in detail at aspects of the Muslim faith,
click here.

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IDEA * EVALUATION * CONCLUSION * INSIGHT * COMMENTARY *
THINK ABOUT RELIGION * EVALUATE RELIGION * DRAW CONCLUSIONS ABOUT RELIGION *
THINK ABOUT RELIGION * DISCUSS RELIGION * GET EVIDENCE ABOUT RELIGIOUS TEXTS *
DISCUSS THE TRUTH ABOUT GOD * BASED ON WHATEVER KNOWLEDGE WE CAN HAVE *
HOT TOPICS * DEBATE ABOUT RELIGION* THINK ABOUT RELIGION

****

The Idea Emporium - For No Holds Barred Thinking,
including about religion

To think about religion. That is not the same as to utter our beliefs.
To think about religion, that is to explore, to ask questions about the truth about god,
the ultimate reality, the nature of reality.

Great stuff.

The goal is not to become the one and only holder of the truth,
but to enlarge what is known about. So, very important that we think about religion,
discuss religion, think about the truth about god, the truth about religion.
Time to stop this from being a taboo topics.
In general, taboo topics point toward fruitful areas to explore.

Elsa
July 26, 2009
copyright © Elsa Schieder 2009, 2011

Taboo Topics: To Discuss Religion, Think About Religion, Think About God.
Super Taboo: Discuss Truth About Religion.
Off Limits: To Reason About Religion.

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