New! Update on What Is Islam? Islam Religion Of Peace? Plus, Help Me Please Lyrics, Please Help Lyrics. Yes, Help Needed about What are Muslim Beliefs.


HOME

 

MY CHOSEN HOME

 

THE IDEA EMPORIUM
How To Think - Tip #1
Walls in The Mind

Stupid Opinion #1

 

THE FLUFFERS BOOK
Ghost dog, preteen girl.
What is real? Preteen story

 

MUSIC MUSIC!!
Can't Cross the Gap
music!!
The Sexe-Tetes with
     
White Chocolate music!!

 

SPOKEN WORD POETRY /
RAP / SONG

Walking with John Lennon
The Echo of the Echo
This Person I Call Me
Escape Velocity

Tank Almost Empty



DR ZEE'S LOVELINE

Keeping the Love Light
When Anger Comes at Us
Caring

 

CREATIVITY
Welcome
Boredom vs Creativity

A Teacher's Taboos

 

WANTED WANTED!!
Musicians composers etc

 

CREATIVITY SITE -
THE BLOG

 


ELSA'S ADVENTURES
in INTERNETLAND


SUBSCRIBE
elsas creatvity emporium swirl - ezine
Opt-in for Updates

NEWSLETTER
FREE

 

this update:
what is Islam?
lots of comments on
what is Islam?

so many views on -
what is Islam?

Plus, help me please lyrics -

Yes, help me please,
all this information on
What is Islam is
very confusing.

****

 



contactcontactcontactcontact    
CONTACT 


       

top of page

 

this update:
what is Islam?
lots of comments on
what is Islam?

so many views on -
what is Islam?

Plus, help me please lyrics -

Yes, help me please,
all this information on
What is Islam is
very confusing.

****

Update on What Is Islam?
Islam Religion Of Peace?
Plus, Help Me Please Lyrics,
Please Help Lyrics.
Yes, Help Needed about
What are Muslim Beliefs.

****

this update:
what is Islam?
lots of comments on
what is Islam?

so many views on -
what is Islam?

Plus, help me please lyrics -

Yes, help me please,
all this information on
What is Islam is
very confusing.

****

Update on What Is Islam?
Islam Religion Of Peace?
Plus, Help Me Please Lyrics,
Please Help Lyrics.
Yes, Help Needed about
What are Muslim Beliefs.

****

this update:
what is Islam?
lots of comments on
what is Islam?

so many views on -
what is Islam?

Plus, help me please lyrics -

Yes, help me please,
all this information on
What is Islam is
very confusing.

****

Update on What Is Islam?
Islam Religion Of Peace?
Plus, Help Me Please Lyrics,
Please Help Lyrics.
Yes, Help Needed about
What are Muslim Beliefs.

****

this update:
what is Islam?
lots of comments on
what is Islam?

so many views on -
what is Islam?

Plus, help me please lyrics -

Yes, help me please,
all this information on
What is Islam is
very confusing.

****

Update on What Is Islam?
Islam Religion Of Peace?
Plus, Help Me Please Lyrics,
Please Help Lyrics.
Yes, Help Needed about
What are Muslim Beliefs.

****

this update:
what is Islam?
lots of comments on
what is Islam?

so many views on -
what is Islam?

Plus, help me please lyrics -

Yes, help me please,
all this information on
What is Islam is
very confusing.

****

Update on What Is Islam?
Islam Religion Of Peace?
Plus, Help Me Please Lyrics,
Please Help Lyrics.
Yes, Help Needed about
What are Muslim Beliefs.

****

this update:
what is Islam?
lots of comments on
what is Islam?

so many views on -
what is Islam?

Plus, help me please lyrics -

Yes, help me please,
all this information on
What is Islam is
very confusing.

****

Update on What Is Islam?
Islam Religion Of Peace?
Plus, Help Me Please Lyrics,
Please Help Lyrics.
Yes, Help Needed about
What are Muslim Beliefs.

****

this update:
what is Islam?
lots of comments on
what is Islam?

so many views on -
what is Islam?

Plus, help me please lyrics -

Yes, help me please,
all this information on
What is Islam is
very confusing.

****

Update on What Is Islam?
Islam Religion Of Peace?
Plus, Help Me Please Lyrics,
Please Help Lyrics.
Yes, Help Needed about
What are Muslim Beliefs.

****

this update:
what is Islam?
lots of comments on
what is Islam?

so many views on -
what is Islam?

Plus, help me please lyrics -

Yes, help me please,
all this information on
What is Islam is
very confusing.

****

Update on What Is Islam?
Islam Religion Of Peace?
Plus, Help Me Please Lyrics,
Please Help Lyrics.
Yes, Help Needed about
What are Muslim Beliefs.

****

this update:
what is Islam?
lots of comments on
what is Islam?

so many views on -
what is Islam?

Plus, help me please lyrics -

Yes, help me please,
all this information on
What is Islam is
very confusing.

****

Update on What Is Islam?
Islam Religion Of Peace?
Plus, Help Me Please Lyrics,
Please Help Lyrics.
Yes, Help Needed about
What are Muslim Beliefs.

****

this update:
what is Islam?
lots of comments on
what is Islam?

so many views on -
what is Islam?

Plus, help me please lyrics -

Yes, help me please,
all this information on
What is Islam is
very confusing.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

this update:
what is Islam?
lots of comments on
what is Islam?

so many views on -
what is Islam?

Plus, help me please lyrics -

Yes, help me please,
all this information on
What is Islam is
very confusing.

****

Update on What Is Islam?
Islam Religion Of Peace?
Plus, Help Me Please Lyrics,
Please Help Lyrics.
Yes, Help Needed about
What are Muslim Beliefs.

****

this update:
what is Islam?
lots of comments on
what is Islam?

so many views on -
what is Islam?

Plus, help me please lyrics -

Yes, help me please,
all this information on
What is Islam is
very confusing.

****

Update on What Is Islam?
Islam Religion Of Peace?
Plus, Help Me Please Lyrics,
Please Help Lyrics.
Yes, Help Needed about
What are Muslim Beliefs.

****

this update:
what is Islam?
lots of comments on
what is Islam?

so many views on -
what is Islam?

Plus, help me please lyrics -

Yes, help me please,
all this information on
What is Islam is
very confusing.

****

Update on What Is Islam?
Islam Religion Of Peace?
Plus, Help Me Please Lyrics,
Please Help Lyrics.
Yes, Help Needed about
What are Muslim Beliefs.

****

this update:
what is Islam?
lots of comments on
what is Islam?

so many views on -
what is Islam?

Plus, help me please lyrics -

Yes, help me please,
all this information on
What is Islam is
very confusing.

****

Update on What Is Islam?
Islam Religion Of Peace?
Plus, Help Me Please Lyrics,
Please Help Lyrics.
Yes, Help Needed about
What are Muslim Beliefs.

****

this update:
what is Islam?
lots of comments on
what is Islam?

so many views on -
what is Islam?

Plus, help me please lyrics -

Yes, help me please,
all this information on
What is Islam is
very confusing.

****

Update on What Is Islam?
Islam Religion Of Peace?
Plus, Help Me Please Lyrics,
Please Help Lyrics.
Yes, Help Needed about
What are Muslim Beliefs.

****

this update:
what is Islam?
lots of comments on
what is Islam?

so many views on -
what is Islam?

Plus, help me please lyrics -

Yes, help me please,
all this information on
What is Islam is
very confusing.

****

Update on What Is Islam?
Islam Religion Of Peace?
Plus, Help Me Please Lyrics,
Please Help Lyrics.
Yes, Help Needed about
What are Muslim Beliefs.

****

this update:
what is Islam?
lots of comments on
what is Islam?

so many views on -
what is Islam?

Plus, help me please lyrics -

Yes, help me please,
all this information on
What is Islam is
very confusing.

****

Update on What Is Islam?
Islam Religion Of Peace?
Plus, Help Me Please Lyrics,
Please Help Lyrics.
Yes, Help Needed about
What are Muslim Beliefs.

****

this update:
what is Islam?
lots of comments on
what is Islam?

so many views on -
what is Islam?

Plus, help me please lyrics -

Yes, help me please,
all this information on
What is Islam is
very confusing.

****

Update on What Is Islam?
Islam Religion Of Peace?
Plus, Help Me Please Lyrics,
Please Help Lyrics.
Yes, Help Needed about
What are Muslim Beliefs.

****

this update:
what is Islam?
lots of comments on
what is Islam?

so many views on -
what is Islam?

Plus, help me please lyrics -

Yes, help me please,
all this information on
What is Islam is
very confusing.

****

Update on What Is Islam?
Islam Religion Of Peace?
Plus, Help Me Please Lyrics,
Please Help Lyrics.
Yes, Help Needed about
What are Muslim Beliefs.

****

this update:
what is Islam?
lots of comments on
what is Islam?

so many views on -
what is Islam?

Plus, help me please lyrics -

Yes, help me please,
all this information on
What is Islam is
very confusing.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

this update:
what is Islam?
lots of comments on
what is Islam?

so many views on -
what is Islam?

Plus, help me please lyrics -

Yes, help me please,
all this information on
What is Islam is
very confusing.

****

Update on What Is Islam?
Islam Religion Of Peace?
Plus, Help Me Please Lyrics,
Please Help Lyrics.
Yes, Help Needed about
What are Muslim Beliefs.

****

this update:
what is Islam?
lots of comments on
what is Islam?

so many views on -
what is Islam?

Plus, help me please lyrics -

Yes, help me please,
all this information on
What is Islam is
very confusing.

****

Update on What Is Islam?
Islam Religion Of Peace?
Plus, Help Me Please Lyrics,
Please Help Lyrics.
Yes, Help Needed about
What are Muslim Beliefs.

****

this update:
what is Islam?
lots of comments on
what is Islam?

so many views on -
what is Islam?

Plus, help me please lyrics -

Yes, help me please,
all this information on
What is Islam is
very confusing.

****

Update on What Is Islam?
Islam Religion Of Peace?
Plus, Help Me Please Lyrics,
Please Help Lyrics.
Yes, Help Needed about
What are Muslim Beliefs.

****

this update:
what is Islam?
lots of comments on
what is Islam?

so many views on -
what is Islam?

Plus, help me please lyrics -

Yes, help me please,
all this information on
What is Islam is
very confusing.

****

Update on What Is Islam?
Islam Religion Of Peace?
Plus, Help Me Please Lyrics,
Please Help Lyrics.
Yes, Help Needed about
What are Muslim Beliefs.

****

this update:
what is Islam?
lots of comments on
what is Islam?

so many views on -
what is Islam?

Plus, help me please lyrics -

Yes, help me please,
all this information on
What is Islam is
very confusing.

****

Update on What Is Islam?
Islam Religion Of Peace?
Plus, Help Me Please Lyrics,
Please Help Lyrics.
Yes, Help Needed about
What are Muslim Beliefs.

****

this update:
what is Islam?
lots of comments on
what is Islam?

so many views on -
what is Islam?

Plus, help me please lyrics -

Yes, help me please,
all this information on
What is Islam is
very confusing.

****

Update on What Is Islam?
Islam Religion Of Peace?
Plus, Help Me Please Lyrics,
Please Help Lyrics.
Yes, Help Needed about
What are Muslim Beliefs.

****

this update:
what is Islam?
lots of comments on
what is Islam?

so many views on -
what is Islam?

Plus, help me please lyrics -

Yes, help me please,
all this information on
What is Islam is
very confusing.

****

Update on What Is Islam?
Islam Religion Of Peace?
Plus, Help Me Please Lyrics,
Please Help Lyrics.
Yes, Help Needed about
What are Muslim Beliefs.

****

this update:
what is Islam?
lots of comments on
what is Islam?

so many views on -
what is Islam?

Plus, help me please lyrics -

Yes, help me please,
all this information on
What is Islam is
very confusing.

****

Update on What Is Islam?
Islam Religion Of Peace?
Plus, Help Me Please Lyrics,
Please Help Lyrics.
Yes, Help Needed about
What are Muslim Beliefs.

****

this update:
what is Islam?
lots of comments on
what is Islam?

so many views on -
what is Islam?

Plus, help me please lyrics -

Yes, help me please,
all this information on
What is Islam is
very confusing.

****

Update on What Is Islam?
Islam Religion Of Peace?
Plus, Help Me Please Lyrics,
Please Help Lyrics.
Yes, Help Needed about
What are Muslim Beliefs.

****

this update:
what is Islam?
lots of comments on
what is Islam?

so many views on -
what is Islam?

Plus, help me please lyrics -

Yes, help me please,
all this information on
What is Islam is
very confusing.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

this update:
what is Islam?
lots of comments on
what is Islam?

so many views on -
what is Islam?

Plus, help me please lyrics -

Yes, help me please,
all this information on
What is Islam is
very confusing.

****

Update on What Is Islam?
Islam Religion Of Peace?
Plus, Help Me Please Lyrics,
Please Help Lyrics.
Yes, Help Needed about
What are Muslim Beliefs.

****

this update:
what is Islam?
lots of comments on
what is Islam?

so many views on -
what is Islam?

Plus, help me please lyrics -

Yes, help me please,
all this information on
What is Islam is
very confusing.

****

Update on What Is Islam?
Islam Religion Of Peace?
Plus, Help Me Please Lyrics,
Please Help Lyrics.
Yes, Help Needed about
What are Muslim Beliefs.

****

this update:
what is Islam?
lots of comments on
what is Islam?

so many views on -
what is Islam?

Plus, help me please lyrics -

Yes, help me please,
all this information on
What is Islam is
very confusing.

****

Update on What Is Islam?
Islam Religion Of Peace?
Plus, Help Me Please Lyrics,
Please Help Lyrics.
Yes, Help Needed about
What are Muslim Beliefs.

****

this update:
what is Islam?
lots of comments on
what is Islam?

so many views on -
what is Islam?

Plus, help me please lyrics -

Yes, help me please,
all this information on
What is Islam is
very confusing.

****

Update on What Is Islam?
Islam Religion Of Peace?
Plus, Help Me Please Lyrics,
Please Help Lyrics.
Yes, Help Needed about
What are Muslim Beliefs.

****

this update:
what is Islam?
lots of comments on
what is Islam?

so many views on -
what is Islam?

Plus, help me please lyrics -

Yes, help me please,
all this information on
What is Islam is
very confusing.

****

Update on What Is Islam?
Islam Religion Of Peace?
Plus, Help Me Please Lyrics,
Please Help Lyrics.
Yes, Help Needed about
What are Muslim Beliefs.

****

this update:
what is Islam?
lots of comments on
what is Islam?

so many views on -
what is Islam?

Plus, help me please lyrics -

Yes, help me please,
all this information on
What is Islam is
very confusing.

****

Update on What Is Islam?
Islam Religion Of Peace?
Plus, Help Me Please Lyrics,
Please Help Lyrics.
Yes, Help Needed about
What are Muslim Beliefs.

****

this update:
what is Islam?
lots of comments on
what is Islam?

so many views on -
what is Islam?

Plus, help me please lyrics -

Yes, help me please,
all this information on
What is Islam is
very confusing.

****

this update:
what is Islam?
lots of comments on
what is Islam?

so many views on -
what is Islam?

Plus, help me please lyrics -

Yes, help me please,
all this information on
What is Islam is
very confusing.

****

Update on What Is Islam?
Islam Religion Of Peace?
Plus, Help Me Please Lyrics,
Please Help Lyrics.
Yes, Help Needed about
What are Muslim Beliefs.

****

Update on What Is Islam?
Islam Religion Of Peace?
Plus, Help Me Please Lyrics,
Please Help Lyrics.
Yes, Help Needed about
What are Muslim Beliefs.

****

this update:
what is Islam?
lots of comments on
what is Islam?

so many views on -
what is Islam?

Plus, help me please lyrics -

Yes, help me please,
all this information on
What is Islam is
very confusing.

****

this update:
what is Islam?
lots of comments on
what is Islam?

so many views on -
what is Islam?

Plus, help me please lyrics -

Yes, help me please,
all this information on
What is Islam is
very confusing.

****

Update on What Is Islam?
Islam Religion Of Peace?
Plus, Help Me Please Lyrics,
Please Help Lyrics.
Yes, Help Needed about
What are Muslim Beliefs.

**** ****

this update:
what is Islam?
lots of comments on
what is Islam?

so many views on -
what is Islam?

Plus, help me please lyrics -

Yes, help me please,
all this information on
What is Islam is
very confusing.

****

Update on What Is Islam?
Islam Religion Of Peace?
Plus, Help Me Please Lyrics,
Please Help Lyrics.
Yes, Help Needed about
What are Muslim Beliefs.

****

****

this update:
what is Islam?
lots of comments on
what is Islam?

so many views on -
what is Islam?

Plus, help me please lyrics -

Yes, help me please,
all this information on
What is Islam is
very confusing.

****

Update on What Is Islam?
Islam Religion Of Peace?
Plus, Help Me Please Lyrics,
Please Help Lyrics.
Yes, Help Needed about
What are Muslim Beliefs.

****


 

 

contact

today: WHAT IS ISLAM?
plus, DO YOU HAVE WHAT I NEED?
plus, DO I HAVE WHAT YOU NEED?

Elsa's Creativity Space - Update
swirl - creativity emporium   Hello again,   Elsa of Elsa's creativity space 

I'm someone who easily gets pulled by some chance encounter, some chance comment. Lately I've been pulled back to issues that I've hardly glanced at this past year - on Islam. Someone (Vince Lombardo) posted a very interesting comment. It pulled me back.

Here's his comment on the lack of the Golden Rule in Islam.

The posting also got me to reread an article I wrote 3 years ago. My response: I was so naive about the Muslim religion. I made all kinds of assumptions based on my own religious tradition (Christian). Lots of water has flowed under the bridge. Lots of information has come my way. I had no idea how wrong I was. I sat down and wrote.

I feel like I've landed on an alien planet.

Has that happened to you?

all comments - what is Islam, Muslim beliefs

****

On the creative side, what do I have for you? What moments?

DO YOU HAVE WHAT I NEED?

do you have what I need?
where I hunger can you feed?
do you soar where I flail?
do you have what I need?


And now, for something very different, very short -
HEART BREAKING OPEN WIDE.

****

There is, by the way, a connection between Do You Have What I Need and the idea piece. Vince gave me information I needed to go forward. And my site, with the possibility of posting comments, gave him an outlet for his research findings.

And with that ...

****

I've just sent you, DO YOU HAVE WHAT I NEED?

A question for you is: do I have what you need?

Our lives tend to be so full these days, but often we're also looking. Maybe for ideas that make the world make more sense, maybe for words that bring things to life inside us - words that bring us to fuller living.

Do I have what you need?

One thing I've just given myself is time. I've taken a year off work (college teaching) so I can work on this site. Will I have more of what you're looking for?

More of a new part of the site is going up, page by page - Zee's Cafe Cafe, which will become an interactive virtual cafe with everything from controversial topics with magic bullet answers, to open mic poetry.

We will see.

In the meantime, may you come to more of what you need.

All the best,

Elsa
August 12, 2009

stirring inner fires
releasing inner riches

all comments - what is Islam, Muslim beliefs

For more exploration of Muslim beliefs, click here.

For all of Do You Have What I Need, click here.

New! Update on What Is Islam? Islam Religion Of Peace?
Plus, Help Me Please Lyrics, Please Help Lyrics.
Yes, Help Needed about What are Muslim Beliefs.

post blog comments

posted by NK, August 11, 2009:

Hey, I would like you to forward me the comment that the man wrote about islam? Me am aware that Islam doesn't lack Golden rule! They even have better rule than Golden. Coz Golden is nothing to Islam. Islam: perfect religion. Islam: peaceful religion.

Elsa's reply, August 12, 2009:

The link to the comment is given. In fact, Vince Lombardo ended up posting several comments. Here is the link I provided for the the lack of a Golden Rule in Islam.

Vince Lombardo's reply, August 13, 2009:

In response to my articles on the absence of the Golden Rule in Islam and the use of “taqiyya” (pious deception) in verbal jihad, NK wrote:

"Hey, I would like you to forward me the comment that the man wrote about islam? Me am aware that Islam doesn't lack Golden rule! They even have better rule than Golden. Coz Golden is nothing to Islam. Islam: perfect religion. Islam: peaceful religion."

Dear NK, I would like to respond to your unsubstantiated statements and show that they are contradicted by the facts.

NK's First Statement: "Me am aware that Islam doesn't lack Golden rule."

NK, you at first believe that "Islam" contains the Golden Rule. Where is that doctrine found? What is the reference of it? I have looked assiduously in the Koran, the Sira and Ahadith and cannot find the Golden Rule in any of these. I looked in the writings of the great Islamic scholars, such as al-Nawawi and ibn Taymiyya and the Golden Rule is not there either! If you have a reference to an Islamic writing that clearly states the Golden Rule, you have a duty to share this with the world. If you cannot share the reference, you have merely made an empty claim without any support. You have merely attempted to take us in. “Taqiyya”, perhaps?

NK, I do not believe you can find an Islamic text that supports the Golden Rule. No one has found one yet.

NK's Second Statement
: "They ("Islam") even have better rule than Golden.

Your second statement is enticing. What is this better rule? The greatest of Jewish theologians, Rabbi Akiba (the "chief of sages") claimed that the Golden Rule was the essence of the Hebrew Bible. For "Islam" to claim to have something "better" than the essential teaching of the Hebrew Bible is truly astounding! What is the reference of the text your opinion is based on? We want to read this text right away!

NK's Third Statement: "Golden is nothing to Islam"

Your third statement contradicts the first. Why would Allah include something in his “perfect religion” that is "nothing" ... something of no or inferior value...in his most important message to humanity? If you add one tiny bit of imperfection, then Islam is no longer “perfect”, but flawed. Is Allah given to wasting our time with nonsense? You are actually accusing of Allah of making a mistake or being trivial. Before you continue, you have not demonstrated Allah gave the Golden Rule! You must do that first. Next, you need to show us how Allah gave the Golden Rule and then said to humanity... "OK, everybody, I didn't mean that. I now have something better than the Golden Rule, so just ignore everything I told you up to now! What I really meant to say was..."

Your "Allah" sounds like a confused human manipulator who is making things up as he goes along and hopes he can trick the audience into overlooking the fact that he is contradicting what he previously said! What you are saying suggest "Islam" is full of deception. Koran 3:54 calls Allah "Khairul Makerin", the best of deceivers! In what other religion does God call himself "The Best of Deceivers"? How can anyone trust a deity who may capriciously leads him astray? If God is the greatest deceiver, what is Satan? An amateur? "Khairul Makerin"... “The BEST”...how can Satan top that? Mohammed certainly dreamed all of this confusing mess up and then hoodwinked and intimidated his followers into going along with it. His weapons were his skilled oratory, armed thugs and his lack of any conscience. Prove me wrong.


If Allah did give the Golden Rule to Mohammed, then the Golden Rule must be called “wonderful"... "divine"... ”the main teaching of Islam”, etc. If Allah did not give the Golden Rule, it is "nothing to Islam" as you said. Which is it? You are trying to have your cake and eat it. We want to hear your choice. One or the other.

NK's Fourth Statement: "Islam: perfect religion"

You are entitled to an opinion, but not to your own facts. It is your opinion that "Islam: perfect religion". The Koran says it is "clear", but when you read it, the Koran "clearly" is obscure, silly and contradictory. The many impenetrable and ridiculous statements in the Koran from curious, unexplained letter combinations (that are devoid of clarity) to the logical, grammatical and stylistic blunders of all kinds that are found throughout the Koran... all point to the fact that it was of purely human origin. Removing the divine halo that surrounds the Koran reveals a book that doesn't require any advanced learning to understand, because all its mysteries are solved by one word ... nonsense. There are so many contradictions between the Koran of Mecca and the Koran of Medina, that the only logical answer is that they were written by entirely different people and the editors threw the texts together in great haste before they had done a thorough edit to remove the inconsistency. When the blunders were discovered by readers, Islam’s dictators came up with the ridiculous idea that Allah “abrogated” verse by “finding something better" than what he had said before. To me, it sounds like pure manipulation and the evil opportunism of someone devoid of ethics.

Islam's claims are mainly based on the circular argument that Allah gave the Koran to Mohammed; Mohammed wrote it down; the Koran tells us Mohammed is the greatest prophet. We take Mohammed's word, because he is confirmed by Allah. No other confirmation is required than Allah's! You can trust Allah... he wouldn’t lie... take it from me...he spoke to me. (But you don’t know me, either!... Wait a minute... isn’t "Allah" the one who called himself “Khairul makerin”... the Greatest of Deceivers???)

But wait, dear NK, Mohammed is vouching for Allah first, and then Allah vouches for Mohammed. This is surely an invention of Mohammed's. There is no proof that Mohammed was not a fabricator who made up the words of Allah. How do you know that he didn’t? Mohammed admitted he wrote the “Satanic verses” after being deluded by Satan. Was Mohammed deluded by Satan a second time... third time...more times? How do you know that Mohammed was not deluded by Satan on a regularly basis? When Mohammed died of poisoning... it was said he was delusional and under spells "so that he thought things had happened that had not happened." Did Mohammed have many delusional episodes like this through his life? How do you know that the visits of Gabriel (which he alone witnessed) were not all delusional? Is that not likely and the most obvious explanation?

NK's Fifth Statement: "peaceful religion"

NK, you have merely mouthed a slogan without any support.

The history of Islam from the outset is a river of blood. Islam's royal family drowned in blood as caliphs and sons of caliphs murdered one another. These were the original Muslims who knew and walked with Mohammed. I do not see where you find that Islam is "peaceful". Historical fact contradicts your opinion.

There have been some 13, 000 fatal jihadist attacks since Osama bin Laden carried out 9-11. Innocent Christian Pakistanis were murdered at the end of July 2009 (two weeks ago) due to an imam who told his illiterate followers "Make mincemeat of the Christians." What was in the mind of this leader of Islam? The peace of the graveyard, perhaps.

Conclusion: Dear NK, It is easy to make assertions, but hard to back them up. Your slogans are merely one-sided propaganda that is demolished by thoughtful analysis.

posted by Leonardo de la Paor, August 11, 2009:

Islam & Talmudic Judaism are anti-Christ.

posted by MG, August 11, 2009:

When the Koran talks about the non-believers, it means those who do not believe in one God, and there are Christians who believe in one God, when Jesus the son of Mary is not a second God. Also if somebody believes in one God, he should give the Islam a second thought.

posted by CB, August 12, 2009:

Thank you, Elsa, for always providing us with soulful and wise pieces of work, art, and so forth.
Your contribution truly inspires me in my own quest for finding and adding more love and soul to an otherwise very rational, "cartésienne" existence.

posted by EM, August 12, 2009:

Please greet this man Vince Lombardo for the "Golden Rule in Islam". The rules in Islam were not given to build a church with people's bones. 40000 Muslim people were killed and their bones were taken to build the church in Sedelik - a church in the Czech republic, when the pope gave decree to build the church from the bones.

Please let the world understand Islam - what is Islam!

Look what they are doing with Islam. Today the world has very much knowledge about Islam. The Islamic people never built a bone church. They never burned people in fire like in Bosnia and in Kosova.

Yes, everything happened to me. I was in the war in Kosova. I saw everything. I saw the SERBIAN SOLDIERS WITH CROSSES AROUND THE NECK, HOW THEY KILLED PEOPLE - PREGNANT WOMEN AND THEY EXTRACTED THE EYES OF PREGNANT WOMEN - KILLED THE BABY IN THE PREGNANT WOMEN'S STOMACH.

Yes I saw everything. Yes I saw everything in the war. I have my full War Diary.

You ask, Do I Have What You Need? Yes. Everything. I have my religion - I have my faith - I believe in God - I like very much Humanism, truth, reality ...

P.S. I'm proud that I'm Muslim.

Elsa's reply, August 12, 2009:

I am so sorry for all the horrors done to so many people - the horrors you witnessed, the horrors done to Muslims and Christians and Jews and atheists and so on.

My big interest: how best to stop this?

****

Re: that you are proud to be Muslim: I know there are good people in every religion - and bad people. I also know that religions can be used in different ways. So the Buddhist religion is often seen as very peaceful - but there also Buddhist governments involved in large human rights violations.

What I care about: good behavior, caring behavior.

Vince Lombardo's reply, August 17, 2009:

EM said: "Look what they are doing with Islam. Today the world has very much knowledge about Islam. The Islamic people never built a bone church. They never burned people in fire like in Bosnia and in Kosova... Please let the world understand Islam - what is Islam!"

My answer to him is that I deplore all acts of discrimination no matter the source or inspiration. I deplore all supremacist cults too, whether Nazism, communism or political Islam. I am earnestly trying to learn about Islam and have found that the mullahs don't want me to know. They disguise and veil Islam with dualistic messages. The main dualistic messages is to say that Islam is tolerant (when Muslims are militarily weak) and then say they have a duty to go on expansionist jihad (when Muslims have military ability to do so).

I further found that no one has ever apologized for all the Islamic invasions, genocides or mass murders in the last 1400 years...especially the 3 million Armenians, Assyrians and Greeks murdered under the rule of the supreme Caliph of Islam in Turkey from 1914 to 1921! It is a crime in Turkey to speak of them!

Many Christian leaders have expressed regret for the Christian misdeeds of history. Christianity has the Golden Rule as one its two main doctrines.

Most of the excesses committed by Christians against Muslims occurred as a response to aggressive, imperialistic, Islamic jihadic invasions! No one invaded Arabia! (Serbian misdeeds are being brought to the World Court...and rightly so.) Will the Grand Imam of Al-Azhar University say it was wrong to invade all the formerly Christian countries seized by Muslims?

The predatory Arabs conquered one peaceful Christian country after another: Palestine, Syria, Egypt, North Africa, Spain, Portugal, Turkey, Greece, Serbia, etc. The non-stop enslavement of Christians, especially of women for use as sex slaves, even Christian pilgrims to the Palestine, led to the Crusades. Ghenghis Khan also responded to invaders like Tamerlane. These wars were defensive in nature.

What is wrong with Islamic jihad is that it completely removes empathy due to the lack of a Golden Rule in Islam. Muslims have no sorrow for the tears caused by jihad to the infidels, because they are commanded to be cruel by Allah.

The "Tears of Jihad" are the sum total of all the pain and suffering caused by the expansionist, imperial doctrine which is the most important action in Islam: "jihad". Mohammed called jihad "the hump of the camel", because it was at the summit of his Arab supremacist scheme.

The following figures are a rough estimate of the death of non-Muslims by the political act of jihad.

Africa

Thomas Sowell [Thomas Sowell, Race and Culture, BasicBooks, 1994, p. 188] estimates that 11 million slaves were shipped across the Atlantic and 14 million were sent to the Islamic nations of North Africa and the Middle East. For every slave captured many others died. Estimates of this collateral damage vary. The renowned missionary David Livingstone estimated that for every slave who reached a plantation, five others were killed in the initial raid or died of illness and privation on the forced march.[Woman's Presbyterian Board of Missions, David Livingstone, p. 62, 1888] Those who were left behind were the very young, the weak, the sick and the old. These soon died since the main providers had been killed or enslaved. So, for 25 million slaves delivered to the market, we have an estimated death of about 120 million people. Islam ran the wholesale slave trade in Africa.

120 million Africans

Christians

The number of Christians martyred by Islam is 9 million [David B. Barrett, Todd M. Johnson, World Christian Trends AD 30-AD 2200, William Carey Library, 2001, p. 230, table 4-10] . A rough estimate by Raphael Moore in History of Asia Minor is that another 50 million died in wars by jihad. So counting the million African Christians killed in the 20th century we have:

60 million Christians

Hindus

Koenard Elst in Negationism in India gives an estimate of 80 million Hindus killed in the total jihad against India. [Koenard Elst, Negationism in India, Voice of India, New Delhi, 2002, pg. 34.] The country of India today is only half the size of ancient India, due to jihad. The mountains near India are called the Hindu Kush, meaning the "funeral pyre of the Hindus."

80 million Hindus

Buddhists

Buddhists do not keep up with the history of war. Keep in mind that in jihad only Christians and Jews were allowed to survive as dhimmis (servants to Islam); everyone else had to convert or die. Jihad killed the Buddhists in Turkey, Afghanistan, along the Silk Route, and in India. The total is roughly 10 million. [David B. Barrett, Todd M. Johnson, World Christian Trends AD 30-AD 2200, William Carey Library, 2001, p. 230, table 4-1.]

10 million Buddhists

Jews

Oddly enough there were not enough Jews killed in jihad to significantly affect the totals of the Great Annihilation. The jihad in Arabia was 100 percent effective, but the numbers were in the thousands, not millions. After that, the Jews submitted and became the dhimmis (servants and second class citizens) of Islam and did not have geographic political power.

This gives a rough estimate of 270 million killed by jihad.


Yes, yes, Christians (and others) have often failed to live up to the standard of the Golden Rule which they know, espouse, declare, and believe in. As fallible humans, they fall short of their own ideals. But Moslems do not even have this ideal to fall short of! That is my point. If you defeat my main point, you defeat my whole argument!

Now, those red herrings: by bringing in the Crusades, you are avoiding the issue and thereby you "lose" in this debate because you run from addressing the main issue head on. The discussion is not about 1) the moral failures of those who do not live up to the Golden Rule or 2) the universal validity of the Golden Rule.

We are examining what Islam actually teaches in place of the Golden Rule…What Islam actually teaches is a doctrine called "al-Walaa wal-Baraa". It is the second most important doctrine in Islam.

Yes, yes, many misdeeds of history have been committed in the name of the church. I would like to remind this forum that the late Pope John Paul II made something of a career of apologising for misdeeds of Christians in the past… apologising some 94 times! He also apologised for the misdeeds committed during the Crusades and for the failure of the church to live by the Golden Rule: "How can we not share, at a distance of eight centuries, the pain and disgust?" The Pope spoke for the largest Christian group.

It is incontestable that the Crusades began as an organised defence against Islamic invasion of Christian countries in response to the loss of half of the Christian countries existing at the time of the First Great Jihad.

Now, who, pray, has apologised for Islam invading and enslaving the peaceful Christian countries of Iraq, Syria, Armenia, Palestine, North Africa, Spain and central Europe? Can you think of anyone? After all, none of these Christian countries tried to invade Arabia.

No one in Islam has apologised nor can apologise for the 270 million victims of jihad, since jihad is an eternally-revealed "divine command" and an inseparable part of Islam… no jihad, no Islam. If jihad is wrong, all Islam is wrong.

Thus, there is no apology for expansionist jihad...is there???

posted by Carole Sturm, August 12, 2009:

Hi Elsa, How are you? I don't know if you remember me from years ago when I stayed in Montreal? We corresponded a few times, but time does get away.

I wanted to make a comment about these things that you have published from Vince Lombardo. I am a Muslim. The things he has published are incorrect. While there is a vein of truth running through - all hate campaigns must have a semblance of truth, because that makes them difficult to dispute - overall the conclusions are false.

I have just read through everything, and I don't have the time now to go line by line to dispute them all, but I wanted you, on a personal level, to understand that he must have his own hidden agenda. It does no good to spout hatred against 1/5 of the world's population, and pretend enlightenment. All that happens is that you stir up fear. It reminds me of the Communist witch hunt of the 1950's in the United States - there always has to be a current "enemy". I guess it is supposed to be Islam right now.

If you don't mind, I would like to tell you just a few things that we Muslims believe and are taught, and then if you would like me to write up something more formal, I would be happy too. Or, if you just want to continue with a personal discussion, I would welcome that too.

First of all, "Islam" means "Finding Peace through submission to God". Our God is the same God of the Christians and Jews. Arab Christians and Jews also call "God" by the name of "Allah." It is only here in the West that this relationship is not understood.

Many of the quotes that Mr. Lombardo referenced are missing the beginning and the end, as well as the context. Also, there have been some words substituted in his quotes that have changed them to appear more sinister than the original. I'm sure that you are well aware that sentences can be plucked from the Bible, out of context, and interpreted in a negative manner. That is what he has done.

Christians and Jews are not "infidels". They are given high status, and called "People of the Book" - recognizing that God has sent revelations and Prophets to them also. Mr. Lombardo acts like Islam is a totally foreign religion. It is not. It is the next step in the Judeo-Christian-Muslim heritage. We are required, as a matter of faith, to believe in all of the books that God has sent down - the Psalms, the Torah, the Gospel - and believe in and respect all of God's Prophets - Adam, Brachium, Moses, Jesus. So, in essence, the "Golden Rule" is in Islam - because we must believe in the Bible.

Just to address a few examples about empathy, and that really silly notion about killing all dogs - where does he come up with this stuff?

One of the most common stories told about Prophet Mohammed, to demonstrate empathy and how we should be patient and kind, is about the Jewish man who used to throw trash and garbage on Prophet Mohammed, every day, as he walked to the Mosque. The Prophet bore this with patience and did not retaliate. One day, the Jewish man did not throw the trash, so the Prophet asked about the man and found out he was sick, and so went to visit him.

Another very common story in our faith is about the lady who came upon a well, and there was no bucket. So, she climbed down into the well to get a drink. When she got back up, she saw there was a dog next to the well, who was almost dead from thirst. Out of sympathy, she climbed down into the well, and using her shoe, brought the dog back up some water. For this, we are taught, God forgave all her sins and admitted her into the highest level of paradise.

Muslims are required to know and care for their neighbors, regardless of their faith. When we are looking for people that need help, charity, or whatever, we look first to our families / relatives, secondly to our neighbors (and neighbors are described as 40 houses in all directions), and then thirdly to the community, which includes everyone around us. For instance, my family buys, cooks, and serves breakfast at the local homeless shelter on the fourth Saturday of every month. Only once in the last five years have I actually met a Muslim client there.

We believe that to kill one innocent soul is equal to killing all of mankind - one or one million, it doesn't matter. It is unforgivable because only God has the power to decide when for life and death. It is the same with suicide. It is an unforgivable sin for the same reason - because you had the audacity to act as God. Therefore you cannot be a "Muslim Suicide Bomber" any more than Jeffery Daugmer was a "Christian Cannibal", even though he "claimed" to be a born again Christian. I can claim to be anything I want - like an African Zulu Princess. But you might look at me and question, since I am white and European. It is sheer ignorance, and the spread of false information by people such as Mr. Lombardo, that keep people from making these logical deductions. "Muslim Terrorist" is an oxymoron, because just by the act of terror, you have move yourself outside of the circle of Islam.

I think that this verse from the Qur'an sums up how Muslims feel about non-Muslims:

2:62 (Asad) VERILY, those who have attained to faith [in this divine writ], as well as those who follow the Jewish faith, and the Christians, and the sabians [49] -all who believe in God and the Last Day and do righteous deeds-shall have their reward with their Sustainer; and no fear need they have, and neither shall they grieve.

The infidels are those that were trying to cause mischief amongst the followers of Mohammed during his life time. They have nothing to do with now. The Kufar, or "kufr", are those who know the truth but hide it or cover it. The Qur'an refers to the Jewish Priests during the time of Jesus as Kufr, because they knew the truth about the prophesies, but hid it from the people. Taking things out of context can be very dangerous.

Thanks for giving me the chance to correct a few misconceptions. Hope you are having a great summer.

Elsa's reply, August 12, 2009:

Yes I remember you very well - and remember how kind you were when we were just starting. We had a lot to learn.

Thank you for answering so fully.

Re Islam: my main interest is different: I have looked at behavior, rather than texts. And with that ...

Re Christians being held in high regard: I've spent time in Egypt, and met both Egyptian Muslims and Christians (Egypt - one of the Middle Eastern / Muslim countries where they are treated better than in most). The Muslims I met spoke of being proud of how well the local Christians were treated, and how much better it was in Egypt than in other Middle Eastern countries. The Christians spoke of the prejudices and laws against them, so that their number has declined from 40% to 10% of the population. Re limitations: one of the things I remember is how low their churches had to be, so that they were built down into cave-like spaces. Very different from here in Montreal - where mosques are allowed to attain any height.

As for Jews, I remember being told by Egyptian Muslims that the Koran says they are lower than dogs. (Again, I don't care about texts, but behavior.) I have also had Muslims students tell me that it took them years of living in Canada before they were able to recognize that Jews might actually be full human beings

***

I certainly recognize that there have been many instances of horrific Christian behavior - to other Christians as well as to non-Christians.

Carole Sturm's reply, August 13, 2009:

Hi Elsa, Thanks for responding!  I welcome the opportunity to try to explain what I know. I'm not sure I am up to a debate with Mr. Lombardo, though. I am not nearly as well-read, and so I think to research and dispute what he says may take way too much of my time.  Anyway, he has convinced himself of the evilness of Islam, and everything he reads or says he interprets in that manner.  As you know, several people can read or hear the same thing, and come away with different understandings, based on their own experiences and prejudices.

I have written my other comments in the text of your message.  Let's keep the conversation going!  

From: Elsa:
My main interest is different: I have looked at behavior, rather than texts. And with that ...  

Lots here to talk about.  However, before we get started, I would like to say that I think it is dangerous to look only at behavior, and not ask "why are they acting that way?", or "what may have contributed to the way they think?"  For instance, if you only see that there is a person who just committed murder, but you don't ask why, you may miss that he was defending himself against an attacker who was trying to kill him.  In the same way, much of the Muslim world of today has a culture that is not Islamic, but one that has come about through many experiences, and much of it through secular leadership, put in place by the West, that has diluted the religion through it's laws. Most of the Muslim world was united in the late 1800's, but was split apart by Europeans - especially the British - who's motto was to "divide and conquer".  It was very effective throughout the Arab-speaking areas, where they went in and divided up the land, picked a likely candidate, and made him King.  This created a nationalistic atmosphere, where a more religious one was previously prevalent.  It was extremely effective, as now you see a people who used to think and act as one, completely divided.  This was the start of the downfall.

Re Christians being held in high regard: I've spent time in Egypt, and met both Egyptian Muslims and Christians (Egypt - one of the Middle Eastern / Muslim countries where they are treated better than in most). The Muslims I met spoke of being proud of how well the local Christians were treated, and how much better it was in Egypt than in other Middle Eastern countries. The Christians spoke of the prejudices and laws against them, so that their number has declined from 40% to 10% of the population. Re limitations: one of the things I remember is how low their churches had to be, so that they were built down into cave-like spaces. Very different from here in Montreal - where mosques are allowed to attain any height.  

I am sure that there is discrimination.  There is no doubt about that.  But, that doesn't mean that they are following Islamic guidelines, or that the majority of the population even knows what Islamic guidelines are, so in light of that, how can you blame "Muslims"?. You can definitely blame the Egyptian government, though, which may or may not be made up of practicing Muslims. Try to think about it like this - I am sure that the majority of the people in Canada, when asked, would say they were of the Christian faith.  How many of them could explain their religion in detail?  If you look back at history, you will see that the example of Moorish Spain was the ideal in Islamic ruling and legislation.  For almost 600 years, it was a shining example of everything good.  Muslims, Christians, and Jews lived side-by-side with no discrimination.  Jews and Christians even held high offices in the government. This was because they were exactly following Islamic guidelines about how to rule and how to treat those under your rule that are not Muslim. But, then a corrupt leader was elected, people were passive, and the Crusades occurred... Enough said about that!

As for Jews, I remember being told by Egyptian Muslims that the Koran says they are lower than dogs.  

This is not true.  I sent you one of the quotes from the Qur'an.  There are some sections that talk about some of the Jews who were deceptive during the time of Muhammad, but this would not paint all Jews in that light.  We believe that no soul can have the burden of someone else's sins, so that includes the Jews who were deceptive.  We don't believe in the stain of "original sin" as in Catholicism - all children are born completely innocent. I am attaching more verses from the Quran about the Jews at the bottom of the note. 

(Again, I don't care about texts, but behavior.) I have also had Muslims students tell me that it took them years of living in Canada before they were able to recognize that Jews might actually be full human beings.  


I'm sure that there are people who demonize the Jews, just as there are those here in the Southern part of the United States who still demonize the Black people - many believe that persecution of the Black person is ok according to Biblical scripture.  That is why it is so important to get out and meet people, and not to judge by stereotypes.  I know just as many Egyptian people who are very active in interfaith dialogue, and who are working hard to erase stereotypes of all people.  This is why you cannot just look only at actions, but ask what went into the actions.   

And, there has to be some understanding of what you are reading.  For instance, the Quran, like the Bible, contains stories, history, and guidelines.  If you take a sentence or two from a story, or from the historical part, and try to have it stand alone as a guideline, it doesn't work.  You must know the context, and that is the same for human behavior.  You have to understand the context, the circumstances, that drove a person to act in a certain manner.  

Another example is Afghanistan.  The Italian are not a "Muslim movement".  No main-stream, educated Muslim would ever say their doctrine is correct.  But, they are people who are seeking power, and the most effective way to manipulate people is through their religion - we have seen that through out history.  When you know that before the Russian invasion, the literacy rate in Afghanistan for men was 40%, and for women was 16%, the picture starts to unfold.  After the people rose up and drove out the Russians, the literacy rate was even less. 

Then the food became scarce, and different factions rose up to fill the leadership void - all of them fighting each other indiscriminately.  Hundreds of thousands died, and many more were starving to death, at the hands of the internal warring factions.  Then the Taliban (one of the factions) got upper control and stepped in and promised to unite Afghanistan, and pointed the finger at the West as being to blame for all the problems of hunger, etc..  In the meantime, they burned all books, including the Quran, closed all schools, radio and tv stations, and the only means of information came from them. They espouse "Sharia law", but they only enforced certain items as a terror campaign against the people.  

Their goal was to get control of everything for the drug trade.  They were/ are/ opium producers - that is how they get their money.  Producing drugs is 100% against Islamic values.  You cannot manufacture, distribute, or ingest drugs or alcohol.  So, they can say they are Muslim until they die, but no practicing literate Muslims accept them as such. 

This is similar to the Klux Klux Klan here in the US.  They claim that Black people are the "beasts of the field", and as such have no human rights - they are just like cattle, to be owned or slaughtered, and if a Black person doesn't know their place, they are to be taught their place through violence, and even death.  The KKK claim to be the most devout of Christians.  Do the majority of Christians recognize them to be?

****

I certainly recognize that there have been many instances of horrific Christian behavior - to other Christians as well as to non-Christians.   


Because religion is the thing that people will die for, it is the most powerful tool for control and oppression.  If you can convince others that it is their religious duty to kill, or do something, nothing will stand in their way.   Hitler used this against the Jews.  Now, the Jews are actually using the same thing against the Palestinians.  They are convinced that the land was given to them by God, 2000 years ago, and it is their right to take possession of it, without any payment or retribution for those currently residing there.  It is the same thing as if the American Indians were to rise up and demand ownership of the entire United States, without regard to those currently living there.  Can you imagine what would happen if you were sleeping in your bed, in your home that your family had owned for hundreds of years, and suddenly you were awakened by a bulldozer who was tearing it down because the Canadian government said that the Indians had a right to your land, and you were not to take any of your possessions with you, nor would you be compensated?  That is the reality of the current political situation in Israel, and the hopelessness that a lot of Muslims feel around the world at the situation, that causes a lot of the hatred. 

**** 

Here are some of the verses I promised you: 

2:139  Say [to the Jews and the Christians]: "Do you argue with us about God? [113] But He is our Sustainer as well as your Sustainer - and unto us shall be accounted our deeds, and unto you, your deeds; and it- is unto Him alone that we devote ourselves. Shows belief in the same God, and that we will all be accountable for our actions.  

2:113 Furthermore, the Jews assert, "The Christians have no valid ground for their beliefs," while the Christians assert, "The Jews have no valid ground for their beliefs" - and both quote the divine writ! Even thus, like unto what they say, have [always] spoken those who were devoid of knowledge;" [93] but it is God who will judge between them on Resurrection Day with regard to all on which they were wont to differ. [94] Here God is saying how silly the argument is about who is right and who is wrong, when all have received revelations from God  

5:18 And [both] the Jews and the Christians say, "We are God's children, [30] and His beloved ones." Say: "Why, then, does He cause you to suffer for your sins? Nay, you are but human beings of His creating. He forgives whom He wills, and He causes to suffer whom He wills: for God's is the dominion over the heavens and the earth and all that is between them, and with Him is all journeys' end." It doesn't matter if you call yourself a Jew, Christian, or Muslim, none are the chosen except for those who follow God's teachings and do good works.  

5:44 Verily, it is We who bestowed from on high the Torah, wherein there was guidance and light. On `its strength did the prophets, who had surrendered themselves unto God, deliver judgment unto those who followed the Jewish faith; [58] and so did the [early] men of God and the rabbis, inasmuch as some of God's writ had been entrusted to their care; [59] and they [all] bore witness to its truth. Therefore, [O children of Israel,] hold not men in awe, but stand in awe of Me; and do not barter away My messages for a trifling gain: [60] for they who do not judge in accordance with what God has bestowed from on high are, indeed, deniers of the truth! Showing that we believe in what God sent to the Jews, and warning of those Rabbis who, during Jesus' time, did not share all of God's message with the people.  

5:69 for, verily, those who have attained to faith [in this divine writ], as well as those who follow the Jewish faith, and the Sabians, [86] and the Christians - all who believe in God and the Last Day and do righteous deeds - no fear need they have, and neither shall they grieve. Almost identical to what I sent you last night, but it was repeated - and therefore emphasized   

62:6 (Asad) Say: "O you who follow the Jewish faith! [5] If you claim that you [alone] are close to God, to the exclusion of all other people, then you should be longing for death - if what you say is true!" [6]  

Just explaining that the Jews aren't the only ones for which there is salvation, and challenging them to be excited for death, since they claim they know they will be in paradise.  

So, you can see that there are many places where Jews are referenced, mostly as an example.  But I have never heard of any reference to them being dogs.  We are taught early on that when someone makes a claim to ask them  "what is your proof?"  If they say it is in the Quran, we say "show me."  We don't take stuff on someone else's word or opinion.  We are taught to question and to seek the truth, not to accept what others say.  Now, is that how it is overseas in the Muslim countries?  No, probably not.  My husband is from Pakistan, a country that is 90% Muslim, 10% Christian.  He went to school with Christian children, and one of them was his best friend - Richard Lee.  Pakistan is a very open country, but definitely Muslim.  What did my husband know about his religion?  He knew how to pray, he knew the rules for fasting, and that he was a Muslim.  Focus was on school and athletics.  When he arrived in the US for school, he wasn't sure what to expect.  The only American TV shows he had seen were Dukes of Hazzard and Three's Company.  So, you can imagine if this is the same type of stuff being shown in other Muslim countries, it is no wonder that they don't understand us !  Anyway, he began to learn the details about Islam when Americans started asking him to explain his beliefs.  He had to learn his religion, after he left his country.  I heard another Muslim man tell me the same thing, just yesterday.  And I don't think it is so different for most American Christians.   

Anyway, my whole point is encourage that people try to avoid stereotyping other people, and to look a little further behind the actions to see what might have lead to them.  Also, be very careful about holding one or more people up to be an example of a religion.  We tend to want to look at someone, like Sadam Hussain, and say "he is an example of a Muslim", when in fact, he said of himself that he followed no religion.  At that time, Bill Clinton was the President of the United States.  I don't think most Christians would want him held up as an example of Christian behavior.  Even our most learned and practicing religious leaders sometimes fall - like many of the priests these days that are being accused of pedophilia, or Reverend Jesse Jackson and his affairs and bastard children - and I could go on and on.  We want to put people in a box, but we don't want others to box us in.  It is not possible for all people of one race or religion to be all bad or all good.  We are all human, and that is the only thing that is true.  Guidelines and Prophets were sent to mankind so that we would know how God wants us to live. 

The morality and the teachings are very similar across all the three monotheistic faiths - Jewish , Christian, Muslim - they all originated from the same God.  Just like Christians believe that they have the more "updated" instructions from God, over the Jews; Muslims believe we have the more "updated" instructions from God over the Christians.  The difference is that we as Muslims do not reject any of the old teachings. 

The best way for me to explain this is with a computer analogy that I came up with .  The Jews got Windows 95; the Christians got Windows 98, and the Muslims have Windows NT.  They are all from the same source, and have the same basic code, but each one built on the other.  I am a Muslim, but I am also a Jew and a Christian - to the extent that I believe in Christ's message to mankind, not that I believe he is the son of God.  Mr. Lombardo seems to have set out to try and prove the evilness of Islam, and to deny that it has any connection to Christianity and Judaism.  Both assumptions are false.  

OK, well, I guess that is all for now.  I could probably go on for hours and hours, but I'm sure you would get bored !  If you have any specific questions, I would be more than happy to answer them.  I do go and speak at churches and other groups who invite me, to explain my faith, and to answer questions.  I welcome even the most seemingly insulting questions, because those are usually the ones that really need to be answered, so please give me the opportunity if there is something burning you wish to know !  Take care - hope you are enjoying your wonderful weather there - it is so hot here! - Carole  

Elsa's reply, August 13, 2009:

You say you are not as well-read as Vince Lombardo - but you certainly seem to know a lot.

By the way, re being told that the Koran says Jews are lower than dogs - I did not automatically believe that the Koran says that. In fact, I have been given such totally different stories about the Koran!

I will post your comments - not for there to be a debate, but for those interested in your side to hear what you have to say.

My goal: an ethical world.

****

I have a more general comment: like many religious people, you hold people and cultures responsible, especially outside cultures, rather than religion. But from what I know about the Muslim religion, it started with both violence and deception - and the deception of infidels (like myself, no particular religious beliefs) is held to be fine, as long as it leads to the benefit of Islam. I've also read lots about ancient Muslim treachery - with no outside cultural influences. You can find the instances here - part of my sporadic quest to figure out what are Muslim beliefs, to what extent is Islam a religion of peace, etc.

You've done way more research than I have. Are these things I've found out made up? Or are they true?

I know it's true your prophet was planning to marry an infant at the time of his death - not giving any space to that infant's right to choose.

Another huge comment - which I've made many times over - why is there not way more outcry by Muslims for peaceful coexistence speaking out against those Muslims who favor violent tactics? Instead many people fear voicing their reservations about Islam - for fear of getting onto a Muslim hit list - and most moderate Muslims do not speak out loud and clear against this.

Carole Sturm's reply, August 13, 2009:

Thanks for presenting both sides. I like your goal, and am happy to contribute in some small way. The stated goal of my interfaith circle is world peace - not so different, but let's hope that together, we each can do a small part and inspire someone else also. It is kind of like the "random acts of kindness movement"... one begets many!

Take care, and I look forward to more discourse. Thanks! - Carole

posted by TP, August 12, 2009:

Let's be honest, for a long time in this world there have been a lot of negative thoughts and people not being accepted. For example, take Northern Ireland. All the fighting was due to religion.

People should believe in what they feel is right. We are all individuals and have our own rights. People of today just want to argue and that won't improve the situation of today's world.

posted by MS, August 12, 2009:

I don't follow your reasoning:

If Christianity were an intrinsically violent religion - then you, as a peace loving person would not call yourself a Christian, right?

Likewise, the millions of peace loving people who call themselves Muslims - would not follow the Muslim religion - or call themselves Muslims - if the Muslim religion were intrinsically violent. That stands to reason.

Elsa's reply, August 12, 2009:

Here's my reasoning: I have no evidence the Muslim religion is intrinsically non-violent. In fact there are a number of sites (which provide lengthy quotes from Muslim religious texts like the Koran) by former Muslims telling the world about the content of the Koran and the Muslim religion. According to what they write, Islam is a religion of hate - of infidels, of those who do not accept Islam, etc.

Why would someone peace-loving stay?

One, many people deny what they see - especially when they are told they are not seeing what they are seeing. Alcoholics, for example, are known for denial. Likewise family members of alcoholics often spend a huge amount of time denying.

MS's reply, August 13, 2009:

I know Muslims - personally - who read the Koran and tell me otherwise - that it does not incite to violence.

I don't see how so many millions of peace loving people could be in denial and claim the Muslim religion as their own - if it were intrinsically violent. It doesn't make sense.

I believe all religions come from one source - just like all people come from one source - and hence are essentially the same. It's the non-essential part of religions that is different.

Religion is like science - it can be used to do good or it can be used to do wrong. Religion (all religions) can be used to help others, or misused as a pretext to promote one's self-serving agenda.

Christ never incited Christians to kill - yet:
- Christian crusaders killed in the name of Christ to get rid of the infidels;
- There was the Spanish Inquisition;
- The Christian right in the US "brings freedom" to the oppressed in the name of God, to hide their real motive - money.

Hindus have the caste system, Muslims use religion to justify terrorism, and so on.

Elsa's reply, August 13, 2009:

I agree: one ultimate reality (which could be the atheist reality). I agree: many horrors are justified by religious beliefs.

We don't see eye to eye, that a religion can contain much intrinsic violence and people may be better than their religion. (Usually people believe the opposite: that people are at fault, not religion.)

MS's reply, August 16, 2009:

Now you are stating that violence is inherent in "many religions".

Yet you singled out the Muslim religion as being violent - implying that other religions are not. This is what I object to in particular.

Elsa's reply, August 16, 2009:

You are assuming incorrectly - I did not imply at all about other religions.

I was writing about the Muslim religion - not making claims re other religions. And I was writing specifically re the Muslim religion as I have heard so many claims that it is a religion of peace - though the evidence indicates that it can at least be used to justify violence. So I was trying to figure that one out.

Note: when one points out that the Christian religion has been used to justify the use of violence (Crusades, witch burnings, etc), you are not threatened with death. But when you explore the nature of Islam, you do risk death threats. Further, there is no massive Muslim protest against Muslim violence.

posted by Richard"Dicky" Schwind - Austria, August 13, 2009:

Thanks for your thoughts on the Muslim religion, which I perfectly agree to. They differ so much from our basis, which is trust. honor and belief.

These items don´t seem to exist, the contrary is the case.

But do they really exist ion our culture? Wherever humans are involved,. there are excuses and many restrictions to the restrictions. As we say, "Everything with a pinch of salt." THINK OF ALL THE RULES we have and then think of the all the exceptions and footnotes.

In the course of my life I have experienced several versions of Islamic rules: They are different in Egypt, different in Jordan, different in Turkey and different in former Soviet states (Usbekistan, Georgia, Armenia). Each swears to be strictly acting according to the Koran, yes... but there is always the "pinch of salt". Just as it suits best.

e.g.: the Islamic alcohol rule: They lament, if they see you drinking beer in the restaurant on Ramadan. 5 minutes later you see the old boys playing cards in the park drinking raki. When you ask them, why raki on Ramadan ? They tell you that raki has nothing to do with alcohol!

Or visit a mosque : The imam encourages you with both hands to come in. You take your shoes off and enter,. Another imam appears inside and chucks you out, because you are a christian dog! - a dirty infidel... Both imams want to show off their power!

Then I had Muslim workers at home installing new windows. They were most reliable, did good work, were friendly and nice. Their local Catholic colleagues were lazy, unreliable and greedy..

When I mentioned the fact of the Danish cartoonists, the Muslims just said, oh these radicalists...

So a Muslim is often not a Muslim, or perhaps a little of this and a bit of that. Just the same with our good Catholic fellow citizens or the clergy when it comes to debate the infallibility, or birth control etc.

I come to the conclusion, that the species "HOMO SAPIENS" is not very sapiens, in spite of being endowed with the ability of thinking! Bad thinking is more convenient than good thinking!

Then there is the faculty of FREE WILL. I am also considering the "indoctrination" which Islam is practicing with the permanent Koran-reading and learning it by heart ... and that all day long and every day! So something must stick in their thinking - if you don't hear anything else!

Indoctrination was also Hitler's method of youth-education. "Semitism has got to be extinguished, it being a contagious disease"..! By the way, this indoctrination was one of the most dreadful crimes, because it is still haunting the minds of many people!

I have one idea that follows me a long time and this is generalization! e.g...: "the Italians, the French, the Americans, the jews, and so forth. Generalization is usually the product of one - maybe a repetition of the one - experience, experienced by somebody. Usually because the first impression found a repetition, so it became obvious, the they (Italians, French, British, Nazis) are like that. Judgments based on a personal experience! It goes against thinking and free will.

Anyhow, I read your message with interest.

posted by MG (second comment) - United States, August 17, 2009:

You know, sometimes it come to my mind that religions came from Satan not from God. What is all this chaos about and who is better than who is too low to be handled by God.

New! Update on What Is Islam? Islam Religion Of Peace?
Plus, Help Me Please Lyrics, Please Help Lyrics.
Yes, Help Needed about What are Muslim Beliefs.

 

_________________________________________________________________________
post blog comments

Stay in touch.
Find out what's NEW at The Creativity Emporium
with FREE updates.
Plus, get the password FREE
to MEMBERS ONLY pages
.
swirl - creativity emporium

Privacy Policy:
I will never let anyone else have your email address.
I respect your privacy. I will only use it to send you updates.

MORE RECENT
like on THE EXPERIENCE OF GRACE

March 29, 2010
FROM HAVE MANY CATS, TO 11 CATS VIDEO

March 22, 2010
INNER CONNECTION THROUGH BODY FOCUS

March 20, 2010
BODY CENTERED INNER CHANGE

August 20, 2009
VIEWS ON ISLAM

August 12, 2009
WHAT IS ISLAM?

June 23, 2009
CHANGED HOME PAGE

June 4, 2009
CREATIVITY EXPLORED

April 27, 2009
LOVE, BLOCKS, THINKING

March 30, 2009
THE ULTIMATE REALITY, plus
SHOPPING FOR DREAMS

December 6, 2008
MY FATHER, MY SELF, plus
PARANORMAL OR PARA-NUTTY?

July 6, 2008
THE COWBOY SINGS:
THERE'S SOMETHING I HAVE TO SAY

May 26, 2008
GOOD THINKING, LOVE POETRY, plus

April 20, 2008
IDEAS ON ... WESTERN TOLERANCE
AND THE INTOLERANT SIDES OF ISLAM

December 28, 2007
HOLIDAY GREETINGS, plus AN EXPLORATION OF HOME

October 20, 2007
ONGOING AUTISM INCREASE?
plus MUSIC, including ECHO OF THE ECHO

September 30, 2007
A GOOD DAY
plus WHAT IS SPOKEN WORD?

September 23, 2007
WRITER IN RESIDENCE WANTED
plus THE TIME FOR WAITING IS OVER

September 16, 2007
FROM RIDING A TIDAL WAVE
TO STUCK ON A TREADMILL

August 14, 2007

ONE CHANGE LEADS TO ANOTHER

August 7, 2007
BIG CHANGES TO THE OPENING PAGE -
BEFORE AND AFTER

July 8, 2007
IT'S A GAMBLE! - GAMBLING - GREAT? GRUESOME?

May 20, 2007
CREATIVITY - PURE VERSUS APPLIED

Apr 9, 07
DON'T BITE OFF MORE THAN YOU CAN CHEW,
BUT OUR DREAMS DO


Apr 1, 07
HOW TO THINK TIP NUMBER ONE

Feb. 7, 07

ON PETS, OWNERSHIP, SLAVERY

Dec 7 '06
Nov 7 '06

Oct 7 '06
Sept 7 '06

Aug 7 '06
_________________________________________________________________________

_________________________________________________________________________

_________________

Elsas Creativity Space - Updates
August 12, 2009
_________________

Welcome to Elsa's Creativity Space

New! Update on What Is Islam? Islam Religion Of Peace?
Plus, Help Me Please Lyrics, Please Help Lyrics.
Yes, Help Needed about What are Muslim Beliefs.


Elsas Creativity Space,
an all-round creativity site
exploring moments, memory, thoughts
through spoken word, song, story,
idea pieces, rap, journal, reflection, dreams, more.
Elsas Creativity Space.

 

Elsas creativity space is
Elsas creativity emporium is
Elsas creativity place

Gertrude Stein said, almost a century ago,
a rose is a rose is a rose.

But what is Islam?
What is one saying when one says,
Islam religion of peace?
What are Muslim beliefs?
In short, what is Islam?

I wrote a song/poem,
help me please lyrics,
please help me lyrics.

I was not writing about
help in answering
what is Islam,
is Islam religion of peace,
what are Muslim beliefs.

So many places where
help me please lyrics,
please help me lyrics
fit.

Now, what is Islam?
Yes, what is Islam?

More questions than answers.

signed,

Elsa

Zee

Not-me

Sexe-Tete

All of me

including my early childhood self, Dely,
who took the name Elsa

August 12 , 2009

copyright © Elsa Schieder, 2009 - all rights reserved

______________

 

 

top of page

 



Elsa's Adventures in Internet Land

______________________________________________________________

home      about      site map      privacy policy      terms of use      contact
______________________________________________________________


site design, site construction - Elsa Schieder
copyright © Elsa Schieder, 2006-2011 - all rights reserved
copyright © elsas-word-story-image-idea-music-emporium.com, 2006-2011 -
all rights reserved

CLICK HERE TO CONTACT

Elsa