Muslims offended by pope. Outraged Muslims kill nun, etc. Desired lesson: offending Muslims leads to Muslim outrage, Muslim rage. Best counter-move?

 HOME  IDEA EMPORIUM  IDEA 1 * 2 * 3 * 4 * 5 * 6 * 7 * 8 * 9 * 10 * 11 * 12 * 13 * 14 * 15 * 16* STUPID OPINION * HOW TO THINK     updates
 

menumenumenumenumenumenumenumenumenumenumenumenumenumenumenu

menu

REGISTER
FOR FREE UPDATES
swirl updates - elsa's creativity emporium

WELCOME
THE IDEA EMPORIUM


FULL MENU
explorations on ...
ANIMAL RIGHTS,
AN INNER VOICE,
GAMBLING IMPULSE,
STUPID OPINIONS,
RELIGIOUS RAGE,
GOOD THINKING,

and more ...

New!
Paranormal Proof
Warnings of Danger
Sept 2009

Feed the Bears?!
bears starving
Sept 2009


What's Narcissism?
and what's wrong with it?
Sept 2009


Fatal Flaw in
Economics of Growth

Aug 2009
 MORE   ALL

Hard Lessons About
Islamic History

August 2009


Deceptive Advertising
and Islam

July 2009

Conservative America
bad thinking
June 2009

The Ultimate Reality
are all religions equal?
Mar 2009

The Brain Game
Manifesto

good thinking,
great thrills
Mar 2009

Collective Guilt &
Political Correctness

past horrors,
current baggage
Feb 2009  MORE  ALL

MORE ...
plus    

Lots of Thinking!
A Celebration
of Thinking

Mar 2009

Western Tolerance,
Islamic Intolerance
Muslim outrage, Western
blindness - seen through
my curious eyes
Jan 2008   INTRO

MORE ...
or
MORE DETAIL



Imagination -
Hope and Horror

not just make believe
Dec 2008  MORE   ALL

Open Secret on
Surviving Recession

Nov 2008  ALL

Bush, McCain, Palin -
Armed & Dangerous

Oct 2008  MORE   ALL

Paranormal
or Para-nutty?
proof of life after death
or wishful thinking
Sept 2008  MORE   ALL

Political Correctness
and Fundamentalism

Jan 2008   MORE   ALL

Autism, Vaccines -
and Parents

May 2007  MORE   ALL

Gambling -
Great? Gruesome?

May 2007  MORE   ALL

How To Think -
Tip Number One:
Ask This One Question

Apr 2007  MORE
  ALL

Walls in the Mind,
They Cripple and Bind

inner walls,
invisible from within,
frustrating for outsiders
Jan 2007   MORE   ALL


Don't Keep it Simple -
Keep it Alive

mental challenge -
the thrill of a lifetime
Dec 2006   MORE   ALL

Animals and Ethics
a childhood NO to a god
Dec 2006  MORE   ALL

Whose Dog Is It?
pets, ownership, slavery
Dec 2006   MORE  ALL

The Rottweiler Pope,
The Danish Cartoon
and Muslim Moderates

the pope's remarks -
help or hindrance?
Sept 2006  MORE  ALL

Mirror, Mirror,
Who is that Horror?

on the rage of the
righteous when coming
across mirrors
Sept 2006  MORE  ALL

A Dangerous
Temptation -

Counter-Prejudice

the lure of hating back
Sept 2006  MORE  ALL

Bush the "Righteous"
illusions, delusions, lies
Sept 2006  MORE  ALL

The Pope Speaks
outraged Muslims protest,
kill nun, demand apology

Sept 2006  MORE   ALL

Give Peace a Chance
by giving empathy
a chance
An Open Letter to
All People, and
for now, especially
all Muslims -
Feb/Aug 2006   MORE

The Rage
of the"Righteous"

on Muslim outrage
at a Danish cartoon
Feb/July 2006   MORE

This Is Not Me
but it's a tempting
disguise due to the
"righteous"
MORE

Stupid
Opinions


stupid opinion #1
all opinions are equal
Aug 06  MORE  ALL
  

logical fallacy
opinion #2

you are where
you are supposed to be
Aug 06   MORE   ALL

Collective Sense of Guilt
Crazy Not Thinking

past horrors,
current baggage
Feb 09  ALL

Breaking the Spell
of Irrational Opinions

rule #1 - don't start by
calling it a stupid opinion
Aug 06  MORE   ALL

stupid opinion #3
everything happens
for a reason

stupid opinion #4
everyone always did
the best they could

stupid opinion #5
we shouldn't
be judgmental

stupid opinion #6
all religions are
basically the same

stupid opinion #7
all cultures are equal

 

idea space
elsa's creativity emporiumelsa's creativity emporium
Opt-in for Updates
NEWSLETTER


More

Idea Emporium?
why? what?
plus exploration of the
definition of "idea"

em-po-ri-um
exploration of
the word
emporium

innerwear that dares
innerwear for those
who dare -
The Idea Emporium

 

About

7 motivations

Elsa, Brain Trainer




contact

top of page

 


OUTRAGED MUSLIMS
DEMAND:
AVOID
OFFENDING MUSLIMS
OR ELSE!






- OUTRAGED MUSLIMS -
WHAT IS THE
UNDERLYING
EMOTION?





- more -
possibly
coming soon

 


OUTRAGED MUSLIMS
DEMAND:
AVOID
OFFENDING MUSLIMS
OR ELSE!


updates
elsa's creativity emporiumelsa's creativity emporium
Opt-in for Updates

NEWSLETTER

 

 

- OUTRAGED MUSLIMS -
WHAT IS THE
UNDERLYING
EMOTION?

menumenumenumenumenumenumenumenumenumenumenumenumenumenumenu

    elsa with ideas, brain trainer  

"It is a fact readily acknowledged, that for humans,
an idea is much more powerful than a fact."

There is the idea of the perfection of Islam.
There is the idea of the righteousness of jihad.
There is the idea of the righteousness of our rage.
There is the idea of the rightness of violence to further our cause.
As for the facts ...

The Pope Speaks - and Outraged Muslims
Protest, Kill Nun, Demand Apology

 


September 16, 2006. I turn on the news and I see: Muslims Playing the We're-Offended Card Once Again.
The story in short:

Muslims offended by pope. Outraged Muslims kill nun, etc.
Once again, offending Muslims leads to Muslim outrage, Muslim rage.

I was expecting all of that. More outraged Muslims. More rage of the so-called righteous. My question: what will the non-Muslim response be?

The last time. September 2005. A Danish cartoonist publishes a cartoon that offends quite a number of Muslims. Muslim rage. Huge protests by outraged Muslims. Muslim insistence that offending Muslims is prohibited. Muslim demands for apologies. Muslims burn an embassy, torch cars, take Danish products off the shelves of stores, put a price on the Danish cartoonist's head. The Western response is understanding, sympathy and nicenes:. offending Muslims - or any religious group - is wrong.

This time. September 2006. The Catholic pope makes a speech, in which he quotes a fourteenth-century Christian Byzantine emperor debating with a Muslim Persian scholar. In that speech, the long-ago emperor speaks against the concept of jihad, holy war, saying that violence in the name of religion is against the nature of god. He also speaks against the rightness of trying to spread a religion by the sword.

I am sure it took the pope quite some time to find the way he wanted to say what he wanted to say about jihad, that it is against the nature of a deity to be in favor of such a thing.

I wondered, watching a news clip of the pope speaking: how has he planned to react to the Muslim reaction which he must have known would come? For the pope is not a stupid man. I expected that he had a carefully worded response, one as planned as the words of his speech.

In chess, one plans ahead by more than one move. To plan, it's best if we can anticipate what the other will do.

The Muslim response. Utterly predictable. Utterly unsurprising. Muslim rage. Muslim outrage. And self-righteous Muslim violence - the exact nature of which could not be predicted. It has included the murder of a Catholic nun. The predictable message: the Muslim religion demands that you avoid offending Muslims or else. You have offended Muslims! Apologize.

Here is the pope's response: he is sorry if his words were misinterpreted. No apology. He does not appear to be responding with fear. He does not seem to be intimidated by what he must have known would occur.

My guess. He is deeply upset by what is happening in the name of the Muslim religion. And since Muslims are not responding in outrage to Muslim violence in the name of the Muslim religion, he is.

The image that comes to mind is of someone lancing a boil – opening an underground infection so the wound can be cleaned. The idea the pope presents is very ordinary, and should go with Muslim insistence that Islam is a religion of peace. The idea: violence done in the name of religion is wrong, and moreover goes against the nature of god.

Another guess - more of a certainty, actually. The pope has long been against the use of violence in the name of the Muslim religion. So he chose clear harsh words to describe a harsh and horrific reality.

****

Here is the pope's opening quote from the fourteen-century Byzantine emperor:

Show me just what Muhammad brought that was new, and there you will find things only evil and inhuman, such as his command to spread by the sword the faith he preached.

As cowboys say in Western movies, "Them's fightin' words." Often, soon after, guns are drawn, shots are fired, good prevails and evil is vanquished. That's the most common scenario in Western movies.

The world I live in is far more complex, with lots of debate, for example, on what is good and what is evil. I am sure the pope knows that, and also knew he was using fighting words.

The reality the pope describes – people using violence in the name of their god - is one that Christians have often been guilty of. The Crusades were done - largely against Muslims who had invaded and conquered much Christian territory - in the name of the Christian religion. Roman emperors converted their subjects to Christianity with the sword. The alternative to conversion was often death. It is not only part of the Muslim religion that has waged so-called holy war, and had gotten converts by violence. The pope knows that full well.

That horrors have been committed in the name of the Christian religion do not make it any better when the same is done by Muslims. If it is against the nature of god to do these things, that's the way it is. It doesn't matter who does the thing.

Back to the pope and his response to the unfolding events. He speaks, outraged Muslims rage, the pope responds. The pope is not backing away from what he said. He is holding to his beliefs and his vision of god. He is definitely not calling for violence, but is instead clearly against the violence.

****

Where do I stand? I hold that one must be able to express one's vision of god, without calling for this vision to be enforced or attacked by violence. And no, not all visions are basically alike (a commonly held and utterly unfounded opinion) or equally valid. Since many of these visions of god are contradictory, it does not stand to reason that they are all valid - for it would make god forgiving, unforgiving, loving, vengeful, hating, rigid, flexible. There is the vision of a loving god, of a punitive god, of a harsh and rigid god, of many very different gods.

It is vital that one can speak what one believes and then back these beliefs with all the evidence one can summon.

Outrage as a response to the pope's words is only meant to cut off debate, thought, reflection. It attempts to keep closed around people the shell that cuts them off from thinking, reflection, experience, development. In other words, Muslim outrage and Muslim rage are tactics that aim to silence questioning in both Muslims and non-Muslims.

****

We will see the next moves.

When one lances a boil, what oozes out is anything but pleasant. The good thing is that one recognizes it as something that needs to be drained, not as something healthy, to be encouraged as much as possible. One drains as well as possible, and administers antibiotics.

I don't know if the world will manage to lance the outbreak of Muslim rage and Muslim outrage, to get Muslims to face fully what is being done in the name of the Muslim religion. "Our religion is a religion of peace," I have heard many Muslims say angrily. The evidence does not show that, not at present.

It will, it's my guess, take thousands of small pushes to get the segment of the Muslim religion that upholds violence in the name of the Muslim religion to somehow or other face what it is doing, to experience the horror of thousands and thousands of Muslims and nonMuslims murdered in the name of the Muslim religion. Muslims offended? I don't see that that offended is the right word. Muslims offended? I do not see that the pope offended. He did touch on something Muslims did not want touched on. I see more Muslim outrage at realities revealed.

Note: Muslims who do not agree with violence being done in the name of their religion could use the same energy to act against those doing such violence rather than going: avoid offending Muslims or else! Are they ashamed? Are they just not thinking? In other words, why the Muslim rage, Muslim outrage?

What comes to mind has to do the psychology of shame-bound systems. In a respectful system, there is openness. In a shame-bound system, one may not speak of many realities. So in an shame-bound system, a battered woman may not reveal she has been battered - or her family is horrified. In other words, the rage is directed at her revealing what is happening, rather than directed at what is happening.

I think back to the pope's blunt words. They were not gentle, soft, tentative suggestions that it might be better not to kill people in the name of a god. Maybe he could not contain his outrage. Much more likely, he was intentionally provoking a response. At present, only he knows.

My hope is that the pope has given things one more small nudge in the right direction.

signed,

Elsa
September 16 , 2006

smart comments

I pause. And soon come to further thoughts and questions.

Question one. What made the pope fail to acknowledge the Christian religion's many transgressions against the nature of god, as he sees it – the many instances of Christian violence in the name of the Christian religion? It would have been better had he done so.

Question two. What was the final impetus for the pope's harsh words?  My partner wonders: does it have anything to do with the poor treatment of Christians in overwhelmingly Muslim countries? Has the treatment of these Christians (Copts) deteriorated even more during the last few years?

My biggest question. How will this turn out? – because all is not predictable.

Another thought.

I have pointed out Muslim rage and Muslim outrage. I have a link to other equally enraged, outraged and outrageous responses in the wake of the pope's speech – from people against all Muslims, and from people disregarding the pope's major argument.

Anti-Muslim rage. One kind of horror, an equally inaccurate understanding of the pope's speech is to applaud it and call for the death of all Muslims. Rage and outrage and hatred are definitely not an exclusive Muslim phenomenon. A question here: who and what will break the hate-rage shell of these people? - because the anti-Muslim hate-rage shell is just as important to break through.

Non-Muslim raging disregard for the pope's words. Probably the most common way of not hearing the pope's message is through saying that the pope has no right to be against Muslims doing violence in the name of religion because Christians have done the same. This is a logical fallacy. Something is wrong because it is wrong, no matter who has done it. It is fair to point out the masses of wrongs done in the name of the Christian religion – and I have in fact said it would have been better had the pope done so. That does not make the wrongs done in the name of the Muslim religion any better. Once again, how does one break through the shell of not listening, not hearing?

Here's the link to some of these outraged outrageous responses – another testament to the human capacity to rage instead of to care, to cut off without thinking instead of to listen and think well .

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2006/09/14/pope-angers-muslim-leader_n_29474.html

Final thought: what I have written comes from what I know, up to this point. Maybe my views will change through more information. I know I am getting more and more convinced, though, on the danger of the rage-hate-righteousness shell of so many people -

from lone murderer-suicides shooting at a school (again locked inside, cut off from caring for the people they are hurting and killing, as well as cut off from valuing their own lives) –

to large scale rage-hate-righteousness shells fostered by some branches of some religions and political ideologies.

The big question, over and over (stated in earlier pieces, and restated here), is:

how do we break that shell/spell? what works best? and then, how can we reach people as early as possible, as effectively as possible, perhaps immunizing them against the shell/spell?

signed,

Elsa
September 16 , 2006

copyright © Elsa Schieder 2006, 2009 - all rights reserved

smart comments

Click here to go from Outraged Muslims Demand: Avoid Offending Muslims
to the initial spark for looking at the Muslims religion and Islam basic beliefs,
The Rage of the Righteous
.

 

Click here to go from the piece on Muslim rage
to a blog on the effects of terrorism
.

 

Questions re Outraged Muslims.
Why so much Muslim rage at the pope's words?

Why so much rage in people in general? Narcissism. Hate. Illusions.
The Idea Emporium - facts, ideas, conclusions.

 



blue green idea

THE IDEA EMPORIUM with
IDEAS on OUTRAGED MUSLIMS, MUSLIM OUTRAGE, MUSLIM RAGE *
EVALUATION of THE STRATEGY: AVOID OFFENDING MUSLIMS OR ELSE! *
CONCLUSIONS regarding THE POPE'S COMMENTS
THAT IT IS AGAINST THE NATURE OF GOD TO BE FOR SPREADING A RELIGION BY VIOLENCE *
* INSIGHT into the origin of MUSLIMS OFFENDED, MUSLIMS DEMAND SILENCE *
COMMENTARY on OUTRAGED MUSLIIM, MUSLIM OUTRAGE, MUSLIM RAGE, MUSLIM VIOLENCE *
THOUGHT-PROVOKING IDEAS * STIMULATING THEORIZING - IN-DEPTH ANALYSIS *
THE IDEA EMPORIUM

blue green idea


- The Idea Emporium on Outraged Muslims -
The Question: Outrage over What?

One of my lifelong concerns has been trying to make sense of reality.
What is happening? Why is this happening? grow from some of what comes back.

Here, I ask myself: why did the pope make the comment he did.
Also, I ask myself: why is the response Muslim outrage, Muslim rage, Muslims offended?

Elsa
August 27, 2009


copyright © Elsa Schieder 2009, 2011, all rights reserved

 

Muslims offended by pope. Outraged Muslims kill nun, etc.
Desired lesson: offending Muslims leads to Muslim outrage, Muslim rage.
Best counter-move?


updates
elsa's creativity emporiumelsa's creativity emporium
Opt-in for Updates

NEWSLETTER

blue green idea

THE IDEA EMPORIUM with
CONFLICTING VERSIONS AND CONCLUSIONS * DIFFICULT AREAS * WELL-REASONED OPINION *
on OUTRAGED MUSLIMS, OFFENDED MUSLIMS

blue green idea

 

 

THE IDEA EMPORIUM
A CELEBRATION OF GOOD THINKING

THE IDEA EMPORIUM
NO HOLDS BARRED THINKING

THE IDEA EMPORIUM
LOOK AT ANYTHING, ASK ANYTHING

 

"It is a fact readily acknowledged,
that for humans,
an idea is much more powerful
than a fact."

CLICK HERE
TO SUBSCRIBE 
FREE UPDATES


swirl updates - elsa's creativity emporium

elsas-creativity-emporium-updates.html

elsas-creativity-emporium-updates.html

elsas-creativity-emporium-updates.html

idea emporium

idea emporium

For More Stimulating
GOOD THINKING,
CLICK HERE.
FREE Updates.
Plus INSTANT ACCESS to
2 ESSENTIAL INGREDIENTS
for GOOD THINGING

swirl updates - elsa's creativity emporium
Why register?
Click here for
3 more good reasons
.

 

***NAVBAR***

 

top of page

 

 

Elsa's Adventures in Internet Land

______________________________________________________________

home      about      site map      privacy policy      terms of use      contact
______________________________________________________________

design, site construction - Elsa Schieder
copyright © Elsa Schieder, 2006-2015 - all rights reserved
copyright © elsas-word-story-image-idea-music-emporium.com, 2006-2015 -
all rights reserved

CLICK HERE TO CONTACT
Elsa


______________________________________________________________